Legacy Series Episode 2 - Fighter Command

0:13

What you remember is the things when you know you’re going to die—but you don’t (laughs).

0:24

You’re so sure you’re going to die, but then you don’t do it.

0:32

And I had two occurrences like that.

1:43

When Dieppe occurred, a group of us—a part of the squadron—we were the top cover.

1:50

And because I was on, really, my first real operation, I stuck to the tail of my leader,

2:00

and I didn’t see very much, really.

2:04

Just the tail of the aircraft.

2:06

And we were top cover, where there really wasn’t much action.

2:10

But down below, you could see the smoke and the activity, and it was real hell.

2:18

But that was my first introduction to operations.

2:26

Man, the Spitfire is still an amazing looking aircraft.

2:33

Don’t let her good looks fool ya.

2:34

She’s fast and deadly.

2:36

Just ask the Germans.

2:37

They saw enough of them during the Battle of Britain.

2:42

Weren’t they just throwing untested pilots into that battle? The Brits were so outnumbered.

2:48

Sometimes. But for the most part procedure still has to be followed.

2:53

Fighter pilots always have to watch and learn before they can get their feet wet.

2:59

It must have been hard for those rookie fighter pilots to just hang back and watch.

3:04

They must be itching to get into the fight.

3:06

If they did get into it, they’d be like a lamb to slaughter.

3:10

It takes time to become a fighter pilot.

3:13

Things are coming at you at breakneck speeds.

3:16

You have to learn to make decisions before you can even think about them.

3:21

You have to know how to avoid flaming out before you can notch up your own victories.

3:28

It’s not like us bombers, who get put in the mix pretty much right away.

3:34

If you’re in a Spit, or a Lanc, or a cargo glider for that matter,

3:40

on your first time out, you’re scared like you never known what scared is.

3:46

You get over it somewhat, but it’s always on your mind.

3:50

Weighing you down.

3:53

But the more I fly, the more I can control it.

3:56

Yeah it’s like exams for me.

3:57

The more I do them, the better I do.

3:59

But it’s a little bit different up there.

4:06

When you are in that insanity around you.

4:11

All the training in the world can’t give you what you really need to come back in one piece.

4:18

And what’s that?

4:21

Lady luck.

4:40

The one flight that probably stands out in my mind is the second 109 that I shot down.

4:48

You know for three and a half years overseas, I shot down two 109s.

4:52

On this one, we were flying as a squadron of twelve.

4:58

And I spotted a Jerry formation.

5:01

You could tell it was the Jerries from the way they flew.

5:04

When they went through cloud, unlike us, they went into line-abreast

5:08

which made a lot of sense to me, because they all came out together.

5:12

And I spotted this off in the distance, and I drew it to the attention of the squadron leader.

5:16

He couldn’t see them.

5:18

So he asked me to take over—I was leading a four-man section

5:21

—take over and go in that direction, which I did.

5:26

And after a while, he picked them up, too.

5:29

And somehow he was able to manoeuvre us so that we were flying line-abreast right behind

5:35

the Jerries and a hundred feet below them, and they hadn’t spotted us.

5:39

And, at that point, he said “Every man for himself,” or something like that.

5:45

He opened fire on his and I opened fire on mine.

5:51

The one I had was carrying a 500-pound bomb under the belly.

5:54

Well, he got rid of that in a hurry!

5:57

And he broke tighter than the first one I got—so tight that,

6:00

while I could turn inside him, I couldn’t turn that last bit to lead him.

6:07

If I’d tried shooting, I’d just be wasting my shots.

6:13

And he kept this up for about three turns, and then he pulled a stunt that I was aware of,

6:17

but hadn’t encountered before—where he suddenly levelled off and closed the throttle.

6:25

So immediately, I have three choices to make: collide with him, turn to the left,

6:31

or to the right—in which case, I would overshoot him,

6:34

and he’d be able to turn in behind me, and I’m a dead goose.

6:36

So, for some reason or other, I rammed on full rudder,

6:41

put the ailerons in the opposite direction, and skidded flat-out beside him.

6:48

Almost hit his tail—just missed his tail.

6:50

I slid out beside him.

6:53

I was within a foot of his wingtip with my wingtip,

6:56

and I was gradually sliding past him.

6:59

So I fishtailed on the rudder to stop that.

7:03

And we ended up flying wingtip to wingtip.

7:06

And I could still remember looking across at the Jerry sitting there;

7:10

and he had on a light-coloured flying jacket of some kind.

7:12

Now, he’s looking at me, and I’m looking at him, saying who’s going to quit first?

7:19

Well, I knew that his stalling speed was higher than mine, so he was going to have to do something first.

7:25

And what he did was open the throttle quick.

7:28

He left me about 300 yards behind.

7:30

Well, I wasn’t going to give him another chance to get into this turning business.

7:34

So, at about 300 yards, with my sight right on his cockpit, I gave him a sharp burst,

7:40

and immediately his canopy flew off.

7:43

But he kept flying, so I gave him another sharp burst, and out comes the parachute.

7:50

I looked around, and there was nobody in the sky.

7:53

We were alone, the two of us.

7:55

So then I thought, geez, nobody to witness it.

7:58

I wouldn’t be able to claim this, and I was determined I was gonna claim it.

8:02

So I thought: I’ll take his picture.

8:05

So I came around in a big turn, got him nicely lined up with the camera,

8:11

and I was just about to take his picture when I realized I was going to hit him.

8:14

I still had my throttle wide open from chasing him.

8:18

So I throttled right back, and came around in a bigger loop, and caught him

8:26

and I have a perfect picture of him and his parachute going down.

8:28

And after that I came home.

8:31

And I found out from the German records later that he had been wounded with the first shot

8:38

or the second, but that’s why he jumped out.

8:43

But believe it; the story is true (laughs).

8:49

Why was it called a dogfight?

8:51

Why not Clash of Eagles?

8:53

Or, Death Duel in the Skies.

8:55

What do dogs have anything to do with flying?

8:58

Quit flapping your gums for a moment and I’ll tell ya.

9:01

A dogfight is a fierce battle between two mad dogs fighting to the death.

9:07

It really describes it, don’t you think?

9:10

Two planes ducking and diving.

9:12

Spinning and shooting.

9:14

Hell bent on destroying each other.

9:16

What’s even crazier is most of these dogfights last on average of no more than 30-seconds!

9:22

And each Spitfire is only loaded with 15-seconds of continuous gunfire.

9:27

So do the math there, Andy.

9:31

Those fighter pilots they get the life.

9:35

The glamour.

9:37

A couple of quick engagements and they’re back for afternoon tea and crumpets.

9:43

It's not like us in bomber command.

9:46

We’re like the turtle and they’re the hare.

9:49

But the turtle always wins.

9:52

Slow and steady wins the race.

9:54

In this race…slow and steady gets you lined up in enemy gun sights and shot down.

10:01

There's no glory in that.

10:03

So were you fighting for personal glory or to kill the enemy?

10:06

Maybe a little of both.

10:09

But is their really any glory in killing another human being?

10:14

I suppose there is…if they’re trying to kill you.

10:35

The Spitfire was light and manoeuvrable, fun to fly.

10:45

The Typhoon wasn’t—but it was exciting to fly, because you were doing exciting things.

10:55

What we could do with a Typhoon was attack columns of tanks.

11:03

And every tank had to have men with them to operate that tank.

11:10

The crews, the soldiers that went along and fought with that tank, the German soldiers, the mechanics

11:22

to work on that tank, fuel, ammunition for the tank, all that kind of stuff.

11:30

With a Typhoon you could kill all them trucks and make a mess of them,

11:37

and block the roads for one thing.

11:39

So to go down there for a Typhoon was like a shooting gallery.

11:44

So it was referred to as a tank buster.

11:48

An excellent low-level attack aircraft—an excellent one!

12:11

In doing our work, we were attacked quite frequently

12:17

—more than occasionally by American aircraft, who had difficulty in recognizing the Typhoon as an Allied aircraft.

12:30

It’s the truth, and it should be told.

12:37

Our CO was new to that area.

12:41

He’d been fighting in Europe, had a good name.

12:46

But he had no experience with the topography there.

12:52

He told ’em, “After three roads, you can attack anything you see.

12:58

It’ll be the enemy.”

12:59

So we counted three roads.

13:01

But one of them wasn’t a road; it was just a trail.

13:05

The next road we saw trucks on.

13:08

We started shooting, and they were a British army.

13:13

Fortunately, we didn’t kill anybody!

13:20

To be killed by one of your own planes.

13:22

That must have been the worst thing to happen to you over there.

13:26

How’s that even possible?!

13:27

It happens all the time in war.

13:29

And believe me, there are worst things in war.

13:32

Like what?

13:34

You think hard enough Andy and I’m sure you can come up with a few.

13:55

Normally, in Spitfires—these were beautiful, the Spitfires. They didn’t have gunsights or guns or anything.

14:02

They had more fuel tanks in them, and they could go farther—very smooth things.

14:10

They would go out on an exercise.

14:12

If there’s an attack somewhere that the Army wanted a picture of

14:20

—if there are any tanks in the area or something like that —they would take pictures.

14:24

They had a camera that did a vertical and then two obliques.

14:30

So, they could fly down along close to a thing and take an olique picture of it, or fly over and take a vertical.

14:43

I bet you never knew that in the First World War the primary role of the aeroplane

14:49

was to gather information and find out what the enemy was doing behind their trenches.

14:54

It wasn’t to shoot down the Red Baron like some of them picture shows lead you to believe.

15:00

No sir, solid reconnaissance saved lives in that war.

15:06

Same is true in this war.

15:08

And they used a Spit?

15:10

That’s right.

15:11

We use a “Spit”.

15:12

Multi-engined aircraft are just too slow.

15:15

Too easily picked off by Jerry fighters.

15:17

But not the “Spit”.

15:20

Did you know that most are unarmed?

15:24

They fly deep behind enemy lines, armed with only cameras to find out what the Fuhrer is up to.

15:30

You know what they say, knowledge is power.

15:33

Really?

15:34

I thought who ever had the biggest gun holds the power.

15:55

I’d been on patrol over London on an eye for item: Beacon.

16:00

Well I took off way up into the Cambridge area.

16:04

We caught up to a German airplane going out into the North Sea.

16:07

He was going home flat-out.

16:11

It was a different model; it was either a Junkers 388 or a 188.

16:16

And my navigator—who was a real enthusiast on information like that—after we shot it,

16:22

it was in flames and going down.

16:25

He said, “Let’s get in closer, so I can give more information to the intelligence people when we get on the ground.”

16:31

It was the stupidest thing I ever did in my life.

16:33

I moved on in and, as I was getting close—and the airplane was completely in flames,

16:39

but the mid-upper gunner was still in his turret on this airplane,

16:43

and I saw the turret moving around to bear it on me.

16:49

I broke as hard as I could to the left, and he started about six inches from one wingtip

16:55

and finished up about six inches from the other wingtip.

16:57

He put thirty-some rounds of 13 mm into my airplane.

17:02

Two or three through the cockpit.

17:04

My navigator has Perspex into his face and things.

17:10

We sat side by side; and one of the bullets went right through between the two of us, amongst other things.

17:17

Well, both engines were badly shot-up.

17:22

One of them: the piston was shot right out of it on the right-hand engine.

17:27

I was going to crash-land,—called (the radio was still working)

17:32

—at the big bomber crash strip, up in Norfolk.

17:36

They said, “We can’t take you, because the air is littered with bombers coming back from a raid.”

17:43

So we tried and we went on to Bradwell Bay, which was about another fifty-sixty miles,

17:49

with this airplane in this shape.

17:52

We landed.

17:53

One thing that is most interesting on that, when I went to put on the brakes, there weren’t any brakes.

18:00

One of the rounds had gone through the air bottles in the back, so I ground-looped in the middle of the airfield

18:06

and there was the airplane, just dripping fuel and all the rest; it never caught fire.

18:10

And that, without a question of a doubt, was the most interesting one in the war.

18:33

You’ve heard of people who were cowards

18:39

in the First World War, they used to stand them up against a wall and shoot them.

18:44

But in our war, they were called LMFs: Lack of Moral Fibre.

18:52

So, one South African lad was posted to the squadron.

18:56

By this time, I was a Flight Leader.

19:00

And he was assigned to me to train initially.

19:06

The first time we took off, I was leading a flight onto— I think it was an Army support operation.

19:16

And we’d no sooner gotten airborne and he said: “My engine’s giving me trouble;

19:21

I have to return home.”

19:24

This wasn’t unusual.

19:25

A lot of people, on their first flight, imagined they had engine troubles.

19:31

So we let him go home.

19:33

I still had another five of us to do the job.

19:38

The next time I took him up, there was just the two of us, and we were going on an interdiction.

19:46

And I could see miles ahead.

19:49

There was dust rising off this road; I knew there was something coming.

19:54

So I said to this kid, “Arm your guns and put on your gunsight.

19:58

Be prepared.

19:59

I’m gonna fire on this target.”

20:03

As soon as we got within range, I did go in and I fired my guns and look. . . nothing happened.

20:12

I looked around, and here was dust coming up in the jungle about a quarter of a mile away.

20:18

It was a new airplane—just been overhauled, just come to the squadron,

20:22

and they put me in it and they never checked to see that the guns were harmonized.

20:27

So instead of the guns pointing ahead, the guns were pointing like this (laughs).

20:33

So I passed over this target, and it was a touring car:

20:38

a touring car like Hitler used to ride, with two Japanese generals and a driver.

20:44

I could see their red epaulettes and collar tabs.

20:50

And their car was half tilted-over into ditch, and they were running across to the jungle.

20:58

I looked to see the bullets from my Number Two.

21:03

Nothing happened.

21:05

So I pulled up and I said, “Why didn’t you fire on that target?”

21:08

He said, “I don’t see anything, Sir.

21:11

I don’t see anything, Sir.”

21:13

What do you mean you don't see anything?

21:14

There’s this pile of dust for miles, leading straight to it.

21:19

I said, “Okay, I’ll fly low over this; it’s a vehicle.

21:24

When I’m directly over it—I’ll tell you when—and then you go ahead and destroy it.

21:29

You’re not going to kill anybody ‘cause there’s nobody in it.

21:33

Just destroy it, and you’ll maybe reduce the length of the war by a few hours.”

21:42

I watched him; he didn’t do anything.

21:44

He just flew around.

21:46

I said, “Aren’t you going to destroy that vehicle?”

21:48

“I don’t see anything, Sir.

21:50

I don’t see anything, Sir.”

21:51

That’s what he kept saying.

21:55

So, I guessed that he was an LMF by then.

21:58

Then we went home.

22:02

But I thought I’d give him one more chance.

22:06

We went off with just the two of us, again.

22:11

But we no sooner got airborne when this kid said, “My engine’s giving me trouble.”

22:17

I said, “Go on home.

22:19

I’ll talk to you when we get home.”

22:22

I wasn’t supposed to continue, because we weren’t allowed to fly singly

22:26

—supposed to be no less than two—but I went anyway!

22:31

And, about five minutes later, I saw a mass of airplanes coming toward me—the sky was full of airplanes.

22:41

As I passed under them, about 400 feet below them, of course they all had Rising Suns.

22:48

I roughly counted about fifty Japanese fighters.

22:54

I was, of course, frozen stiff (laughs).

23:00

But I watched them to see if any broke off from the formation.

23:05

But they didn’t; they just flew on—they flew right by me.

23:10

So I called operations and gave the number of aircraft, the exact position of them,

23:17

and the exact direction they were flying.

23:19

But the kid obviously heard my message to operations, and he panicked.

23:29

And he either landed with his brakes on, or he landed and tried to stop too fast.

23:37

The engine stalled, and the Merlin engines made a lot of crackling noise when they were cooling down,

23:43

and he believed that his aircraft was on fire.

23:50

Anyway, a bunch of troops that were in a slit trench on the side of the runway,

23:54

waiting for the Japanese, ran out, lifted up the aircraft, and hauled him out.

23:59

And he was a raving maniac.

24:02

They had to hold him down; It took four of them to hold him down ‘til the raid was

24:06

over and an ambulance came and took him away in a straightjacket.

24:10

And I never saw him again.

24:16

Lack of Moral Fibre is just a fancy way of saying that someone had no guts. Right?

24:22

That they were a coward.

24:23

It’s not that simple Andy.

24:27

Let me see if I can explain it to you.

24:31

Sortie after sortie, every pilot of fighter planes, or every crewmember of a Lanc,

24:39

or any aircraft for that matter, they risk everything up there.

24:45

Day and night we bring the war to the enemy and guys break down.

24:54

It’s not that they care more about their own survival.

24:56

It's that it all becomes too much for them.

25:00

And sometimes they just can’t pull themselves up by the bootstraps.

25:05

The things we do to each other in war, it’s just not natural.

25:14

One day you’re dancing at home to Glenn Miller with your best gal and next you’re here.

25:23

You witness how horrible death can be.

25:27

But what choice do we have?

25:28

It’s either them or it's us…No guts?

25:35

Tell me what “guts” are Andy?

25:39

I think it takes real guts not to fight.

25:42

And let others fight your battles?

25:46

Sacrifice their lives.

25:50

Is that fair?

26:10

I met a fellow by the name of Percy Kearse from out West.

26:14

And Percy and I became friends there.

26:16

We sort of stuck together, by luck, at the next posting.

26:20

Percy and I went through training together.

26:23

The flight commander was going to take us on an op.

26:27

So then I said to him, are we ready to take off?

26:31

And there wasn’t anybody who could get their aircraft going.

26:34

So I said, “If everything gets going, I’ll fly fighter cover for you.”

26:39

Which is unusual to do such a thing, but I did.

26:43

And I watched Percy start off in his dive, and he just blew up.

26:47

Must have got hit, in one of the bombs with a piece of shrapnel or something.

26:52

It just blew up, you know?

26:59

So...Sorry.

27:21

It was my stupid day, really.

27:23

It was my day off.

27:25

And I’d gone down to the flight line, and I was waxing my aircraft so I could get another little bit of speed out of it.

27:35

The other flight said, “Lloyd, we’re short of pilots.

27:39

Can you fly with us today?”

27:43

I said, “Sure.”

27:45

And off we went, and my radio went out.

27:50

I didn’t have any radio, and I stupidly stayed with them, and we were attacked by 109s,

27:59

and I didn’t see it.

28:00

My Number Two broke and I was on my own, and I saw two 109s down there.

28:07

I went down and I thought, “Boy I’m gonna be a hero today.”

28:11

And, next thing I knew— I weaved, you know.

28:14

And I looked back, and this guy was shooting at me.

28:18

The aircraft was badly hit: a shell hit the fuselage right about here,

28:25

and bits and pieces went through into my arm.

28:29

But the airplane was still flying, so I spun down to a fairly low altitude,

28:36

and then headed towards home.

28:40

The engine quit on me.

28:41

I found a flat spot, and I sat it down there.

28:46

I left everything there.

28:48

Nearby was a series of trees going up the mountain, and there was a stream that had dried up.

28:59

But there were trees on either side, and I felt secure in there, out of sight.

29:05

I tore my shirt up, and bandaged my arm, and then walked up the stream bed.

29:13

And I was well into the field when an armoured car came down the road.

29:20

They took me to a casualty clearing centre.

29:23

I remember the doctor saying now, “You start counting backwards from ten.”

29:28

I don’t think I got very far before I went to sleep.

29:33

When I woke up, my arm was in a bandage.

29:37

However, I couldn’t get any of the doctors to phone my unit to tell them that I was OK.

29:43

I think it was ten days that my mother hadn’t heard anything about it.

29:50

She got the signal that I was missing.

29:54

And it must have been awful, because she was all alone.

29:57

Dad was in the service, and he was away.

30:02

I think that was probably the thing that killed her, because in 1951, she died.

30:12

It was from a nervous colitis problem that probably was generated at that time.

30:20

I feel somewhat guilty about that.

30:30

Not being able to talk to your loved ones back home, that must have sucked.

30:36

Sucked?

30:37

Tough.

30:38

It must have been tough.

30:40

Damn tootin’ it’s tough.

30:43

There’s a whole heap of worrying going on back home.

30:47

And, we don’t always get their letters.

30:50

And they don’t always get ours.

30:53

Any news from the front, good or bad, never gets to the ones we left behind fast enough.

31:02

I guess the time spent not knowing, must have been the worst thing of all?